Christian Challenge International

"Ask the Pastor"

We frequently receive questions in email from people about doctrine, practice, etc. From time to time we will post the questions and the answers here on the web page. If you'd like to submit a question, simply email our pastor at Bro.Buddy@ChristianChallenge.org or use the form below.

Monday, July 12, 2004

> I came a cross your site in the process of some research. Looking at
> some of your "Hebraic_Foundations" postings, I saw a great deal that
> impressed me. However, I did see something that disturbed me: "This
> forum is not for Messianic Judaism, Jewish Roots, Yahwist, or
> Sabbatarian groups, or any group we consider aberrant in belief."

Chris,

Hebraic-Foundations is primarily an educational forum and is
designed exclusive to Christians. Its purpose is to give Christians a
place to dialogue within the framework of what would be
considered traditional Christian.

Perhaps a little history would help. Some years ago we had an
email conference called Abraham-Forum. Membership was
extended to Christians and Messianics alike. Some of my
Messianic leader friends warned me about trying to mix Christians
and Messianics, but I failed to take the warning seriously.

To make a long story shot, the conference took a turn that I had not
expected. The problem was the continuous attack mode against
Christians. Sadly enough most of our problems were from the
Messianics. (The Yahwists were put off the forum pretty quick.)

It didn't take me long to realize that those who were attacking the
Christians were amiss from the Spirit of Christ. It also became
obvious over time that this kind of conference may work if you
wanted an open free-for-all, let-the-chips-fall-where-they-may, kind
of conference. However, that was not my purpose.

We closed down the AF conference, took the knowledge we had
gained, and decided to set up an educational forum that would be
exclusive to Christians. Our purpose was defined. The forum has
worked remarkably well. If a person is unable to dialogue with
respect, we set him aside.

Perhaps it would help to give a bit of personal information. My forte
of study for many years has been the Hebraics of the Christian
faith. (40+ years of ministry.) I was into the Hebraics of Christianity
long before hearing about a Messianic movement. When I first
heard about the Messianics, I was overjoyed. But the more I
dialogued with them and attended some of their meetings, the
more I realized that the Messianic movement that I was seeing was
a far cry from the faith of the apostles. The major problem I found
was that the majority seem more prone towards mixing rabbinic
Judaism with Christianity than in letting the Scriptures breathe for
themselves.

Then I began to discover that a great many Messianics were never
Jews to begin with. I have to agree with Dwight Pryor who said that
he was not "into a Jewish lust trip." (I was in a conference with
him.) Then I began to realize that a number of Messianics are
simply Charismatics seeking something new to identify with. I find
this strange since I believe with all my heart that when a person
truly comes to faith in Jesus Christ, the "trying to find something
new" no longer has any meaning. Jesus is the total of our life. He is
new every day.

Then I have to conclude my remarks in this regard with simply
saying that I don't believe that Jesus came to make us Jews, or to
give us a Jewish religion, or to give us a religion at all. He came to
give us life. This life is found in only one place. It will never be
found in a brand of religion. It is in Jesus alone.

Brother, I don't mean to be offensive to you or to any Messianic
who truly loves Jesus. The statement "or any group we consider
aberrant in belief" was general in nature. We would apply it more to
Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc. But we do keep a close eye
on the Hebraic-Foundations conference to avoid the problems we
encountered on Abraham-Forum. When a Messianic subscribes to
the forum I spend time with them to see where they are coming
from.

> As an Elder in a Messianic Jewish congregation, I flinched, because we
> identify many aberrent beliefs in (some) Jewish Roots groups, and all
> Yahwist and Sabbatarian groups I have encountered.

Thank you Chris. I appreciate you speaking to this. Actually we are
not anti-Messianic when it comes to balance. We've had seders at
Christian Challenge that were overseen by Messianics. Last year I
was invited to sing at a Messianic synagogue. But I do hope you
understand my main concern. I simply wish to have a forum where
Christians can dialogue in an environment that is exclusive to them.

But I do need to be upfront with you in admitting my own weakness.
My experience with Messianics left a bad taste in my mouth. I hate
this because I'm sure that many Messianics are very much in love
with the same Jesus that I love and serve. Actually I've had these
'lovers-of-Jesus' Messianics apologize to me in private and publicly
for the misspeakings of some of their less enlightened members.

If you care to venture a little further with me, you may wish to listen
to a bit of my music. I say this simply because all my music is
original. Each song was given to me by the Holy Spirit, and every
song lifts up Jesus in a particular way. If interested you can hear
them at this site:

http://www.christianchallenge.org/JubileeCD.html

> (I say "some Jewish Roots groups" because that can be a really broad >
> category, and there are a number of solid mainstream evangelicals who
> > use the term "Jewish Roots" as a term for striving, as you do, to >
> understand Scripture in a First Century context.)

Perhaps this is where it would help if we could get on the same
page. Hebraic-Foundations is not a Jewish-roots group. It has
never been. Nor is it our wish to pursue that issue.

Our single purpose is to study Biblical Christianity as it was
intended to be studied, that is, in the context of its message. It is
our firm belief that the new covenant is a heavenly covenant that
has no regard to the religious or cultural background of any person.
I believe that Christianity was intended to be multi-cultural. Of
course this leaves room for Messianics as well as any other Jesus-
loving people to worship within their own culture.

Actually the apostle said there was really only one rule that new
covenant believers must adhere to. He said, "But may it never be
that I would boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ,
through which the world has been crucified to me, and I do the
world. For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but
a new creation. And those who will walk by this rule, peace and
mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God." (Gal6:16)

> I am obviously wondering why you lump us in with those other
groups?

Chris, it wasn't our intention to lump everyone in the same group. I
may need to reword the statement you have in mind.

> As a matter of curiosity, I reviewed your Statement of Faith and Seven
> Articles of faith, and couldn't find anything that I would disagree
> with.

Thank you brother. I am happy about that. By the way, we do have
a couple of Messianics on our forum. We consider each subscriber
case-by-case. But we expect all our membership to use terms that
are understood by Christians.

> In the interest of dialogue then, or at least my own edification, why
> do you categorize Messianic Judaism as "aberrant in belief"? Or, to
> put it more specifically, what beliefs do you identify with Messianic
> Judaism that you consider "aberrent"?

The primary area of concern is as I stated earlier, is where
Messianics tend towards mixing rabbinic (talmudic) Judaism with
Christianity. To make a list of all that concerns me would only be a
cause for debate. I really don't wish to get into those areas.

Chris, you come across as a very gracious person. I hope my
responses to you will be received in that same manner. I have no
desire to belittle my Messianic kinsmen. And I hope I've answered
some of your concern.

May the Lord bless you,

Buddy

Bro. Buddy Martin - Ask the Pastor

-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
Lawrence "Buddy" Martin
email: Bro.Buddy@ChristianChallenge.org
Web: http://www.ChristianChallenge.org

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PLEASE include your email address or we won't be able to send the answer to you.

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(Note: Please include your full name and email address. Answers will be sent by return email. Christian Challenge reserves the right to reprint your question and edit it for clarity and content on our "Ask the Pastor" web page. Please note that we will not divulge your full name nor your email address. Typically we'll use your first name only. Not all questions are posted on this page - many more are responded to privately. Please let us know if you do NOT want your question listed or if you'd prefer it to be listed anonymously. We respect your privacy and will NOT sell/give/loan your name and email address to any other organization/business/entity.)

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